Curse

Fantras · Jun 18, 2005, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garric

Ugh, I can't believe you can act so igonorant about this issue. Religion isn't on the same basis as Star Trek. Believe me. People die over religious issues every day. Almost every day I am abused by Christians at school since I am atheist, with discrimination and people calling me names and stuff like "You are going to hell.". I get this shit from adults too, people who you would figure would be normal people. But I guess this is the "normal" Christian attitude. Not to mention that my Islamic friend was beat up by a bunch Christian boys from our school. I don't want to deal with fricking fundamentalist assholes like you when I go to Guild Wars to get away from all of the bigotry, ignorance, and intoleration of Christianity. Please, just keep it to yourself.

What prison are you incarcerated in? Have you talked to the guards?

Digital Limit · Jun 18, 2005, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Religion spawns hatred.

Religion incites war.

Religion is the basis of so much that is illogical and illconcieved.

Believe what you will, but facts and logic will always run my life before some 'faith' will ever intervene. Though this is very off topic and I apoligize for offending anyone, I feel it must be noted. And yet, I must also note that the previous statement was simply a safety net. Sure, religious groups may also bring a lot of good to the world, but more death has come from religion than life. I can not begin to understand how so many people can support such a corrupt and ignorant establishment as the church. God works in mysterious ways my ass - learn to cope instead of looking to fiction for a way to solve your issues.

Thank god I'm atheist.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 18, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Limit

Believe what you will, but facts and logic will always run my life before some 'faith' will ever intervene.

Good to see some rational people around

Reibus · Jun 18, 2005, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Being told your going to hell isnt a problem just say that you dont think that there is a hell, they will say that there is then ask them to prove it, but before they can do anything get in the point that by hitting you they are proving your point, because they can do nothing else, because they are too f**kin small minded, like Fantras, to see the blaringly obvious truth in front of the nose. Now we cant prove there isnt a God not to worry Sciance is ever progressing and it is only a matter of time, but still why ppl cant think about religion logically and then watch it crumble.

Now on topic, you were being flammed, because you were being discriminant against non christians, this may not have been your intension, but this was how I rember it I was going to post in your guild thread over at TGH when I first saw it, but in the end didnt feel i had the strength to get into another religions discusion over the internet. It just think that few ppl can believe that as your running round Kryta or the Tombs you are quoting the gospel with other ppl in the guild

Edit: @Digital Limit without faith you will have little hope, so you have to put in the ppl around you friends, family and mankind in general they mayy not be perfect but they are all we've got, visable too

Fantras · Jun 18, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

I said something rather inflamatory to call a big fat BS on what the guy said above about being constantly harrassed at school and being tired about it. If he's in Highschool or grade school, then there are certainly avenues he can pursue as they are (if he's in the US) funded by the government and, as such, he has protection against people trying to shove a religion down his throat at School when he's trying to learn. If he's in college, then it's a different story. In college, you have to deal with all types of political and religious crap all the time. We all did. I hate to be cold, but deal with it.

Reibus: being called small minded by someone like you I have no problem with. Thanks for the input.

Teufel Eldritch · Jun 18, 2005, 09:11 AM // 09:11

I am strongly anti-Xtian & I have no prob with a guild that's is only Xtians. So it's discriminatory? So what? All guilds are. They allow ppl into them & keep others out of them. Am I gonna scream "DISCRIMINATION!!" because highly skilled guilds wont invite me to join them? No, why? Because I'm not highly skilled.

GraceAlone · Jun 18, 2005, 10:57 AM // 10:57

First, I must apologize that I have not given this thread my complete attention. I've been following it and posting from work (which I am at now) but have been very distracted as a result. So for that, I am sorry. For those of you that have been abused by Christians I am also sorry, and can only apologize for the actions of those who claim to be Christians. If I found out that one of my children had beaten up/abused a non-Christian because of their religious belief trust me, there would be some very harsh consequences. I also apologize for those people that are calling out fire and brimstone, and while it may have been a valid form of testament in previous generations, in my opinion, it is very ineffectual in today's society.

Second, I am very leery to post in this thread again because of the possibility of seeming to be argumentative when that is the furthest thing from my mind. Please understand that this is a discussion and while there are things to be said, I will try and same them. Whether it is the "last word" or not is irrelevant. So please don't take offense at another post by me.

Finally, I hope you of the community understand that I have made some changes, not in my opinion, but to the practices and methods of the guild. As stated earlier, if you see someone from the guild "preaching" to you and you are bothered by it, please let me know. There are some things that I take very seriously and while I think that people need to hear the gospel, at the same time I don't want it to be presented in an offensive way. I have submitted some changes to the GWG database to reword some of the statements concerning the guild, and while some of our goals remain the same, we are seeking to present a better "face" to the community. Please realize that I appreciate all of your opinions, even those of you who hate my guts, and find that for the most part this has been a very good, civilised, discussion. Basically the reason for this post to inform/show you of the community that your voice is heard, and that I understand and respect your opinions. I may disagree (completely) but that does not diminish my feelings towards you, nor my compassion and love for you.

Thank you,
Grace

Terminal · Jun 18, 2005, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digital Limit

Believe what you will, but facts and logic will always run my life before some 'faith' will ever intervene. Sure, religious groups may also bring a lot of good to the world, but more death has come from religion than life.

QFE. Well said.

To the original poster: In your guild discription state clearly that you beleive that your religion stands for equal rights for homosexuals, right of every woman to abortion and an apology for the wars fought and millions butchered in the name of that religion (i dont care which one, all have done it) and i'll give respect.

You ask why ? Because the above points are as without any credible ground to stand upon as your own points about making a Christian guild.

By the way, everyone, have i mentioned that as much as I look down upon 1337 kids, i'll take someone yelling "OMGWTF Lol" to me any Sunday morning in-game over "Have you been to church yet son ?" in Denravi Dist 1.

Aranarth · Jun 18, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

I really think that such a controversial real-world subject has no place in this or any game. The topic of religion causes a lot of conflict, and who wants that sort of thing invading their chosen escape from reality?

It doesn't matter what the subject is - there is just no place for such a thing in a video game unless it happens to follow the game lore. It would be different if your guild was devoted to Balthazar, but in this case, the subject you're trying to bring into the game has nothing to do with what ANet has told us about the game.

Let the game be what it is. Keep any serious beliefs out of this fantasy world and in your real life where they belong.

aja · Jun 18, 2005, 02:25 PM // 14:25

think for yourself, create your own religion.

DarrenJasper · Jun 18, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceAlone

I also apologize for those people that are calling out fire and brimstone, and while it may have been a valid form of testament in previous generations, in my opinion, it is very ineffectual in today's society.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 18, 2005, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranarth

I really think that such a controversial real-world subject has no place in this or any game.

What if I were to create a guild based on political views? Like an all-commie guild

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aja

think for yourself, create your own religion.

I've tried that. And it still didn't work for me, simply because it was still a religion.

"'Faith' means not wanting to know what is true"-Nietzsche

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Yes, kindly expand on your statement

aja · Jun 18, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

I've tried that. And it still didn't work for me, simply because it was still a religion.

i hear you, ive tried it as well. and the most fun i got out of it was giving everything a god and naming it something incredibly stupid. however, i think its just the principle behind the statement rather than taking it literally. well at least thats what i got from timothy leary's speeches

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

"'Faith' means not wanting to know what is true"-Nietzsche

nice

Robos Stavanis · Jun 18, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

Isn't there an NPC that DOES do that though?

Not only that, but thinking about this, how many of use have /kneeled to a stature in this game to " show homage" to a chosen diety? I am sure if you picked one of these Diety's and mentioned them in your Guild recruitment, nobody would bat an eye..........the same should be true then if one wants to mention that their Guild has a Christian theme. In, game, for all I know then, that would be a guild to a diety that perhaps I had not heard of before. From I am am reading the recruitment statement was, I would not have been offended in any way.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 18, 2005, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robos Stavanis

Not only that, but thinking about this, how many of use have /kneeled to a stature in this game to " show homage" to a chosen diety? I am sure if you picked one of these Diety's and mentioned them in your Guild recruitment, nobody would bat an eye..........the same should be true then if one wants to mention that their Guild has a Christian theme.

The difference is Christianity is a real life institution that has offended, insulted, or spit on people. Last time I checked, grenth and Dwayna hadn't insulted anybody...

Also, the in-game deities are part of the game. Chrisitanity is not. That is where the line would be drawn.

GraceAlone · Jun 18, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Sure, in the old days, preachers would stand on a street corner and preach to the masses as they passed by. Often times they would call out condemnation and damnation upon those that did not repent. In those days when people were told that they would go to hell it had an impact on them. In today's soceity this kind of preaching is ineffective, in my opinion. The reason being that people today either:

a) don't believe in God and thus do not believe in hell
b) think hell is going to be a big party so they want to go there
c)if they believe in God believe that He would never send anybody to hell
d)something else

That's all I can come up with or the moment, but that's why this kind of preaching, in my mind, is ineffectual and just turns people off to the gospel. Personally, I would rather dialogue and have you see the effect that Jesus has on my life, and if you still say "to hell with you," then that's fine. I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's not my role to condemn people to hell. Only God can make that call.
Make sense?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 18, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

So threatening people with some fantasy-land is ok as long as they believe it?

You make me laugh

Zfactor · Jun 18, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Most people hate guild's spam recruiting in general. IMO this guild is also kind of... pointless, but hey that's just me, I won't tell you not to do it.

But honestly, why don't you go cry to the Koreans about your small harassment problem. Take a look at how much people harass and cuss them out and they are not even playing on our servers. There is no accounting for other people's stupidity.

EDIT/ADDITION

To be even more honest, people play games to get away from real life. Athiests, Scientologists, Muslims, Mormans, Amish (jk

), or whatever, play a game for fun. When you are recruiting for a (what is essentially) church guild, I can see where it can be annoying. It is kind of like people are trying to escape the real world where religion and fanatics kind of ruin a lot of stuff (not solely but some do), and there you are recruiting for a religious guild. I am a Christian living in American and I even feel there is no escape from religion anymore, or rather other people's versions of it.

Think of it like this, its kind of like the jahova's witness at your door. It doesnt REALLY inconvenience you, but you hate it none-the-less

smitty-gw · Jun 18, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aranarth

I really think that such a controversial real-world subject has no place in this or any game. The topic of religion causes a lot of conflict, and who wants that sort of thing invading their chosen escape from reality?

It doesn't matter what the subject is - there is just no place for such a thing in a video game unless it happens to follow the game lore. It would be different if your guild was devoted to Balthazar, but in this case, the subject you're trying to bring into the game has nothing to do with what ANet has told us about the game.

Let the game be what it is. Keep any serious beliefs out of this fantasy world and in your real life where they belong.

Well said. Religion is too volatile a subject and has no place here.

I don't personally care about Grace's recruiting methods or agenda one way or the other, but will reaffirm that Grace will continue to receive negative responses from the community and to expect it. This should be clear after the last 200+ posts.

The good advice was previously given, just not acknowledged nor taken.